[Yukidama's mama]

Hoping to get some advice please.

A few days ago when getting Yuki out for the evening I noticed a little vomit patch in his sleeping area. It was quite small and I didnt think much of it as he's done it several times before in the past (usually whenever we tried to feed him an insect during the day, but his stomach rejects it/too full from eating during the night). He always re-eats the vomited food so there's just a crusty patch left on his fleece. Normally the vomit is same colour as his cat foods and sometimes pieces of shell from the superworms he eats that are mixed with his cat food.

Anyways, last night (so 2-3 nights after first vomit) there was quite a big vomit patch in his sleeping area and this one had worm shells in it. He'd re-eaten most of the vomit but I tried picking off the shell bits etc that was left and it felt damp still so must have happened not long before (I woke him up about 10.30pm). This was a little alarming, as he hadn't eaten anything since the early morning like 5-6am so is it normal for the food to still being digested in his stomach all that time?

The past few nights we've noticed he seems more grumpier than usual and just a bit more reserved/anxious (still enjoying his cuddles once he's settled in his sack but a bit huffier if touched directly). I also found 3 loose quills in his cage last night and the night before a really big one so could he be starting to go through a quilling? He just turnt 1yrs on 25th Oct. Normally I only find 1 quill a week if any.

Also last night I noticed twice his body kinda retching (not his mouth, but more like his stomach contracting). First time when I was trying to get him out and he was hiding from me (again normally he doesn't run away, doesn't generally like being picked up but normally just huffs and puffs a bit, not actually runs away). Second time was on my boyfriends lap towards the end of the night, he was laying in his sack but stood up in it and could see his stomach contracting and he was rocking his body forward. Normally it looks like he's attempting masturbating when he puts his head under but was different with the body rocking and then after he looked like he got whatever to come up and briefly chewed. This could just be masturbating, but literally 5 mins before he did the same actions on me without the rocking...

Other behaviour:
* still eating all his food (last night I removed any worm bits still in his food, in case it is the shells making him vomit). The past couple of nights before I also been giving two superworms as they're smaller. Also these worms are the ones I bred.. Last night went back down to one worm. He also got a dubia roach on Friday night which was quite big.
* still wheeling during the night. I heard him from 1am to 4.30am on it several times and seems to be running faster! He lost 8gs in one day when I weighed him last night!
* poop is still few and small. He did 3 smallish poops during last night but were more round/short and less skinny long. Also lately, there's green smears on his poopy wheel in the morning.
* I haven't managed to check his skin for dehydration, he's been so grumpy I don't think he'll let me, especially since his quills seem sensitive lately. He did the biggest wee on me on Saturday night though ><. I also made his wet mix food really watery last night to help with hydration especially since he vomitted.
* when he's sleeping, he's been making lots of noises lately. Sometimes he makes a coo sound, but recently it sounds a bit different and sometimes the sound is both when he breathes in and out. He just did it now so made me think of it.

I'm going to try taking him to a new vet clinic I've just found nearby that also has two English speaking vets and try make an appointment for Wednesday or whenever I can with either of them but if you think I should take him sooner I will try. Since he's still eating and running like a maniac it makes me think it's not an emergency but I'm of course worried in case he has a slight blockage or something else going on inside like a GI and he'll suddenly get worse. Any advice appreciated, thank you

 

[Yukidama's mama]

Quick update: Yuki hasn't vomitted again and has been doing better poops which is good to see . Last night I also made his food really watery by accident but think maybe he needed it as his poops were longer and a bit bigger and not at all soft/mushy which has happened before when I've made his food too watery... Also have been removing most the shells from the superworm I add to his food so he's not having to digest so much of it and think that is also helping.

His mood still seems low and huffy but he's active at night and eating all his food at least.

Taking him to a new vet tomorrow so hopefully that will go well and he's ok. I wanted to ask, for a vet to hear their chest or check inside mouth do they usually need to put hedgies under anesthetic? It really worries me to have him put under in case he is a bit weak. What is the best thing to do? Since he's one years old now I wanted them to do a wellness check at the same time as going about his vomiting and stools, and also listen to his chest etc. Any advice is welcome, thank you.

 

[SquirtleSquirt]

It's good to hear Yuki stopped vomiting. As for anesthetic I don't think the vet will do it unless they absolutely need to. I hope everything goes well!

 

[Yukidama's mama]

Thanks Squirtlesquirt for the reply and reassurance . Yep I'm glad vomiting has stopped, he needed to poo and pee last night before I got him out which is unusual for him. He did two good poops but then the third was covered in dark green sticky mucous so think he's definitely got an upset tummy ~ not sure if it was from his really watery food though from the night before maybe?

Getting ready to leave soon (it's morning here now), I'll post update after we've been to the vets!

 

[SquirtleSquirt]

Hope all goes well! Keep us updated!!

 

[Yukidama's mama]

Sorry for the late update...

The vet visit went well, as in he thought Yuki seemed healthy, which was reassuring. He checked his poop sample which was covered in the green mucus and said it was ok. He took him in another room to examine him with assistance of a nurse but I'm not entirely sure what they were able to do as he wasn't very cooperative and when he brought him back down he was so scared and having a serious hissy fit I could just about pick him up in his ball of fiery, the poor thing. With our help he managed to listen to his chest and said it sounded fine so that was a relief to hear as I was always a little worried he could have a start of a UTi with his occasional sneezing and heavy snoring. The vet said he could do X-rays and an ultra sound if we wanted, as that's the only way to really know if anything is wrong but he also suggested to try antibiotics first and see if that helps first then if it didn't to come back for X-rays etc. We'd also have to leave him there if we did want them and collect him later as the vet had scheduled surgery so wouldn't be able to do them straightaway. So we decided to take the antibotics route first.

The vet prescribed Baytril 5ml and told us to put only one drop on his food twice a day. This seems like a very low dose from what I've tried to research on here. We haven't started the antibiotics yet as not sure if he really needs them if his stool sample was fine and his chest sounded ok as well, but seeing the dose is low would it cause him much side effects? As I'm worried it could upset his stomach even more, if there is nothing wrong with him.

This evening I gave him a footbath as he didn't poop last night and hardly ran on his wheel, he ate all his food though. He got really stressed yesterday going to the vets, it took us ages to find the building and he vomitted a little green bile (which had superworm shells in it), from all the walking ><. Anyways, he did the longest poo after his bath(!) and the last part to come out had dark green mucus on it again. He did get a bit stressed out after the footbath as I was trying to clean his fur and he absolutely hates being wrapped in a towel!

I'm about to order some benebac to see if it helps with the green mucous or am I best to give the antibiotics (I'm not sure if this will make it worse, as antibiotics generally upset stomachs). We're also since last night, removing all shells from the superworm we give him, by just squeezing out the guts so he still gets the flavour, and he's still eating it thankfully!

Really appreciate some guidance whether to give the antibiotics or first see how he is without any worm shells for a few days (we're thinking he's having trouble digesting them every night). Thank you!

 

[SquirtleSquirt]

Do you think you can stop giving the superworms for now and see if the vomiting lessens?

 

[Yukidama's mama]

Unfortunately I don't think he'll touch the cat food without the worm flavouring! ><
But he doesn't appear to have been sick again, since we started removing the worm outer shells which is good. Instead now he's doing really long poops and the last part always has green mucus on it (I'm guessing the shells were the cause for the constipation/smaller poops and vomitting). Been giving benebac for two nights now but unfortunately he wouldn't poop whilst he was out with us yesterday evening so couldn't check for any green mucus :roll: . He's had green mucus on his poops since the 7th, he's also been losing weight since making the changes, dropping from a steady 345gs to 329g last night ~ either because he's pooping better now or because he's not eating the worm shells or any other insects whilst we try ruling things out. So last night I added two worms to his food but still removed all shells.

I've started a new thread about the green mucus and benebac so will update that after it's been a few days and see if the green mucus stops. Otherwise I guess we will try the antibiotics. Thanks for your advice and concern

 

[nikki]

Are the worms dried? I would go ahead and give the antibiotics to see if there is any kind of intestinal infection going on.

 

[Yukidama's mama]

Thanks for the reply Nikki

Nope superworms are live (I cut them up before feeding). Ok thanks for advice re the antibiotics. Is 5ml quite a low dose of Baytril? I was just worried in case he didn't need them and it made his stomach worse but guess I can give him benebac alongside the antibiotics ~ is 2+ hours gap between them ok? How long does it take for the antibiotics to kick in and for me to notice a difference? The vet told us to give it to him for a week and if no difference to come back in and do an X-ray etc. He said to give it twice a day, one drop on his food.

 

[nikki]

That is a low dose but is still enough to help if there is an infection. Yes a 2 or more hour gap between the antibiotics and the benebac is good. It can take a couple of days before you notice an improvement but no matter what make sure you give it for the entire week.

 

[Yukidama's mama]

A very late update!

I wanted to update this in case people read it for advice and then get to the end and it was never updated / resolved!

So Yuki did stop vomitting as we continued to always remove the superworm exoskeleton pieces from his food (so we were just giving him the innards of the worms, I know it's a bit gross but he loves it!). By doing this he stopped vomitting for the most part and his poops returned back to a normal size, so I'm presuming the superworm exoskeletons are too hard for him to digest, since we were giving him 2-3 daily.

Recently we did try to gradually start introducing small pieces of the superworm exoskeleton again (just 2 or 3 small pieces) as well as giving 1-2 mini canned crickets and after a couple weeks he started vomitting again and I usually found pieces of the supers' exoskeletons in the dried up vomit. Sometimes the vomit was in his litter tray at the entrance to his wheel so I wasn't sure if he was just running too much with a stomach full of watery food and made himself sick but it's too much of a coincidence that we also started feeding the super exoskeletons again. The past few days we removed all peieces and just gave the innards and he's been fine again. Last night I gave him one mini cricket so hopefully he'll be ok with those!

Does anyone know much about insects, are superworm exoskeletons harder for them to digest? Once I get through the batch of supers I bred for him I'm going to try farming mealies instead. Are they easier for them to digest? I really want him to have insects in his diet as he just loves them. We did have some live dubia roaches but they grew quite big and he actually gagged on one in front of us so I'm too scared to give him anymore. I'll try buying just small ones next time.

Re the green mucus on his stools. I did eventually decide to give him the antibiotics as the benebac only helped a little and the antibiotics did clear up the green mucus! I wish I gave them to him sooner, also he had no trouble taking the medication, in fact he seemed to eat more with it ~ the little weirdo! He has occasionally had slightly green tinge poop again but no where near as much or any slimy mucus so I defintely think he had a GI infection at that time. His poops are now pretty long and healthy looking . Also since I had to give the antibiotics twice a day, I realised how hungry he is in the morning and so I've started feeding him his cat kibble (soaked) in the morning as well and the best thing is that he will now eat the cat kibble without having superworms in it yay! ~ we still cut up supers (innards only) for him at night for his dinner but it's so nice to see him scoff down his cat food. He still won't touch dry kibble though so I've just stopped trying with that now and he always has soaked cat kibble available at all times. Also since my original posts he has managed to gain more weight and is now a steady 370g! The most he's ever weighed ^.^

Anyways hope this thread helps anyone in the future. If in doubt always seek vet advice though! There are others reasons why a hedgehog may be vomitting and they can be serious issues needing urgent medical attention.