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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a litter of 4 5 week old hoglets, next week they will be moving into the nursery. Anyway the one boy, the runt, I plan on keeping for breeding (Theodore). He is very small, half the size of his sisters. Next week he will be in his own cage, and I will be able to see his eating patterns. Is there a really fatty food I can feed him? He will hopefully be getting his first "date" with Eleanor at the end of October, I just don't wont him to be too small. I don't want her to be able to hurt him, or him not be able to provide his whole potential. When ever I check on him he is usually sleeping. I take him out for about 45 minutes each night to give him some wet kitten food and mealies. I want him to be as healthy as possible. He has beautiful facial markings (two thin badger striped going up his forehead with full mask) and a set of dark grey quills. Theodore's front paw is completely pink, and the other front one appears to be "dip dyed" it has a line dividing the pink from brown. I want him to pass down his beautiful colors and personality, but only if he is healthy.
 

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Ten weeks old is too young to breed and have reliable results. Although boys can impregnate a female as early as 6 week old, usually they are not purposely bred until 4 months because their fertility can be hit and miss prior to this age.

Most breeders do not breed the runts. Responsible breeders choose the best and healthiest hedgehogs to breed and breed for health first above colour.

I think you need to do some research on responsible breeding.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ten weeks old is too young to breed and have reliable results. Although boys can impregnate a female as early as 6 week old, usually they are not purposely bred until 4 months because their fertility can be hit and miss prior to this age. :)
Thank you guys for responding! I would usually wait until they are round 20 weeks. But i am beyond excited to see the colors from Eleanor because this is her first breed. But back on the food is there a fatty one i can feed him? He appears to be very health, just on the small side. I really needed the refresh on breeding age for a boy, thanks.

A little off this topic, but if i breed Eleanor, a white face reverse pinto, with my Finn who is a light cinacot with black eyes. Will i get a confetti? I asked another popular breeder if she had a photo of a confetti, and she said it was very rare. I've never seen on so if someone could share a photo i would appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Confetti is not a recognized colour. It's just a made up name. :)
What would be the proper term for a hoglet with more than one "pinto" color? If Elle has dark grey, and Finn cinacot wouldn't the babies have more than one color pattern on the quills? :confused:
 

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You can't predict the colour of the babies from the colour of the parents. You would have to know the colours of their ancestors for 4-5 generations to be able to have even a chance of predicting the colours.
The above was a post from Nikki in a past thread. I don't know anything about breeding for color but I just wanted to relay the info for you. So I guess it's really "up in the air" on what color the babies will be if you breed those two hogs.
You should be able to look at the pedigrees and get a better idea. They should have color and eye color for every hog on the pedigree, atleast mine do.

As far as "fatty" foods for the runt. You don't really want to give him fatty foods, you want him to gain healthy weight. You could get a quality kitten food to mix in. They tend to have a higher fat percentage, maybe get one around 20%. Babies can use the extra fat for a few months but you want to make sure it's a good quality kitten kibble and of course you could give him some meal worms a couple times a week too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All the breeders I've very contacted has told me that they wont give me the pedigrees, until I get USDA
 

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I agree, I've heard a lot that color prediction is pretty difficult, so you might not really know what to expect. But I also wanted to mention that no, you're not going to get a hedgehog with two different colors. As far as I know, a hedgehog is only ever one color pattern (though they can be pinto, and then have white quills as well). So you won't have a hog with both grey quills and cinnamon quills, or anything like that. I suppose there might be possible exceptions, but I would guess they're very, very rare, and more likely from quill staining or something like that.

One more note about color - his color & markings could very well change at this point. He won't have his final adult color until after his 9-week quilling. So you might want to hold off on your color research & predictions for litters until you know what his final color will be.

Also a comment on the size thing - keep in mind that breeding small hedgehogs isn't always a good thing, regardless of health status. While the sizes of our US hedgehogs have gotten smaller & smaller over time, from what I've read, and many people like that because they think they're cuter, etc., that's not necessarily healthy. For example, look at "teacup" animals - dogs, pigs, etc. that have been bred specifically to be small. Oftentimes they have a lot of health issues because they're not meant to be that small. They're more fragile, they can have issues caused by their size, and so on. He might seem pretty healthy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that his genes should be passed on. With as small as he is compared to his sisters, he doesn't sound like a good breeding candidate to me (though I do admit to having no breeding experience).

And I agree with Ellisrks about food. Keep an eye on his body shape in addition to his total body size too, though. If he's just a small-bodied hedgehog, but not a runner-type body, food that's high in fat could easily make him overweight. But while he's still growing & since he's a bit behind, a kitten food would probably be a good idea for him.
 

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I'm checking out your website and I'm curious. How old is Eleanor? You mention on your site that you don't plan to breed her until December because she's very young. But you say here that you want to breed them at the end of October. Is she going to be at the right age for a litter with either of those dates? Keep in mind that females have a much more specific window for the right time for a first breeding than males do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
All the breeders I've very contacted has told me that they wont give me the pedigrees, until I get USDA
which is very understand able and I completely agree. She did however give me a family tree "break down".

Eleanor
parents:

mother: albino
her mother: revere pinto split face
her mother: grey
her mother: brown pinto

father: grey whiteface
his father: grey snowflake
his father: platinum
his father: reverse pinto

Finn
parents:

mother: cinnamon
her mother: apricot
her mother: brown
her mother: brown

father: brown
his father: cinnamon
his father: brown
his father: apricot

I hope the set up kind of understandable. Sorry for confusion. Also from what I understand they have very lean lines
 

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The pedigree isn't necessary for the color lines. You need the pedigree so you can check with the registry and look for any genetic problems in the bloodlines. Hedgehogs should not be bred unless you have their pedigree to check for problems they could pass on to their offspring. The most notable one is WHS - Wobbly Hedgehog Syndrome. Responsible, ethical breeders are trying their best to prevent this disease from becoming more common by checking for it in the backgrounds of their breeding hedgehogs. If any hedgehog has WHS in their background, they shouldn't be bred since it can skip generations. If you don't have the pedigrees and haven't specifically checked your hedgehogs' backgrounds for WHS and other genetic problems, you should not be breeding them. You can't guarantee you're breeding healthy babies.

Edit: If the breeders who sold you your hedgehogs did so knowing you were planning to breed them & still didn't give you their pedigrees, then they're also irresponsible breeders. A responsible breeder knows the necessity of checking pedigrees for genetic diseases and wouldn't withhold a pedigree.
 

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I was looking at your website and wondering what kind of carrier you have for people to take their babies home in? You talked about "drilled lids"? Hedgehogs, and any animal actually, should only be transported in a hard sided pet carrier that can be seat belted into the vehicle and I don't understand why you would be drilling holes in them?

Also the hedgehogs you're calling Salt and Pepper are just greys. Salt and Peppers are the rarest of all hedgehog colours and there are very very few in the US.
 

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Also, I just want to make it clear, Brooklyn - it's not that we have a problem with you breeding, and we're not trying to attack you. We don't mind breeders, breeders are fine! And we could use more experienced breeders on the forum to help give advice to those who may find themselves with an accidental litter or with other issues. But it's very important to breed responsibly and ethically, and those are the kinds of breeders we need. That means having pedigrees, making sure you're breeding genetically sound, healthy pets, and having up-to-date, accurate information on your website. While identifying colors isn't everyone's strong point, more research should probably be done for some things before you try to post predictions or expectations of litter colors on the site. The health & temperament of the babies are far more important than the colors.

I just want to make sure you know we're not trying to run you off or anything. We'd love to have you stay around, we just want to know if you're willing to be called out on things that may not be correct, and if you're willing to fix some of the issues so that you can be a responsible breeder that would be a benefit to the hedgehog community. You do have some great things on your website, such as requiring the person buying the hedgehog to be 18, having recipients of gift hedgehogs be present to pick up the pet, etc.

Another thing that I'm not really sure about, but perhaps one of the experienced breeders could clarify - it might be a good idea to check into whether you need to have your USDA license before you start breeding your two new girls (assuming you do, since the pedigree thing is in the air). I'm not sure whether you need to have the license before you actually have three breeding females, or if you're able to pursue the license without any issues even after having bred the females. It could be something that's not a concern! I'm not sure, just thought I'd mention it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Also the hedgehogs you're calling Salt and Pepper are just greys. Salt and Peppers are the rarest of all hedgehog colours and there are very very few in the US.
I know I just haven't updated any other pages except for the "available babies" page! I've been meaning to do that. I'll get on it tonight. I'm really lazy when I comes to updating pages, I've learned lots of information in he last year, that I should have know before I ever started :-?.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Also, I just want to make it clear, Brooklyn - it's not that we have a problem with you breeding, and we're not trying to attack you. We don't mind breeders, breeders are fine! And we could use more experienced breeders on the forum to help give advice to those who may find themselves with an accidental litter or with other issues. But it's very important to breed responsibly and ethically, and those are the kinds of breeders we need. That means having pedigrees, making sure you're breeding genetically sound, healthy pets, and having up-to-date, accurate information on your website. While identifying colors isn't everyone's strong point, more research should probably be done for some things before you try to post predictions or expectations of litter colors on the site. The health & temperament of the babies are far more important than the colors.

I just want to make sure you know we're not trying to run you off or anything. We'd love to have you stay around, we just want to know if you're willing to be called out on things that may not be correct, and if you're willing to fix some of the issues so that you can be a responsible breeder that would be a benefit to the hedgehog community. You do have some great things on your website, such as requiring the person buying the hedgehog to be 18, having recipients of gift hedgehogs be present to pick up the pet, etc.

Another thing that I'm not really sure about, but perhaps one of the experienced breeders could clarify - it might be a good idea to check into whether you need to have your USDA license before you start breeding your two new girls (assuming you do, since the pedigree thing is in the air). I'm not sure whether you need to have the license before you actually have three breeding females, or if you're able to pursue the license without any issues even after having bred the females. It could be something that's not a concern! I'm not sure, just thought I'd mention it.
I am trying to be a responsible breeder, and I would like to become one with experience and that other people can look to me for advice. I spoke to Sharron Orth of dream flower meadows and she gave me lots of amazing tips and she told me a lot of information. I've only been breeding from august 2013 so I am still gathering all this information, i should have know from the start. I remember her sating "we all have to start somewhere"

I currently have 4 girls, but two are too young to breed (elle and Amelia). My old lady sprinkles is retiring because this November she will be having her 3 rd birthday. And Rosie, my albino lady cannot get pregnant:(, that is why she is available. Because 3 girls of breeding age is the limit I wont be getting any more girls. I would love to become USDA licensed but I am not 18 yet.

I know health and temperament are the highest things on the list, but colors are so much fun! I love seeing what colors I can get.

As far as linage goes, Peek a Boo Hogetry is here I got Eleanor and Amelia from and she said Amelia came from a rather clean, healthy line. Eleanor how ever had some maui (past generations who have had WHS). From my understandings it is very slim that she will pass it down.
 

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You shouldn't be breeding any hedgehog that has any WHS in its lineage. Because it can skip many generations you can't be sure that your babies will never have it. The fact that you know and are still breeding her isn't good. Responsible breeders don't breed any hedgehogs that have any WHS in their lineage. Even a slim chance of passing it on its to much.
 
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