[grumpypebbles]

I know I just made a post, but I guess I'm desperately clinging to any sort of hope that this isn't uterine cancer and instead a really bad UTI or something.
I've been monitoring the amount of blood left underneath Pebbles's wheel since I took her to the vet. I should note the vet was massaging and palpatating her stomach a lot to check, so maybe that stimulated something, because the next morning there was a lot of blood after nothing for a few days.
This morning it's more mixed in? I don't know how to describe it. I've attached two pictures below, the all pink one is this morning and the one with the blood ontop was from yesterday.
I know I need to take her back to the vet, but she's still running and eating, she doesn't seem like she's in pain? I don't know what to do here.
Is there a chance that this is just a really bad UTI? I was certain it was uterine when the blood wasn't mixed, but now it seems like it is, and I don't know what to do.
Pebbles is at least three and a half years old, and 400 grams if that changes anything.
First picture is last night right after she was on her wheel, second is this morning (the small bright red/orange bits are pieces of food), and third is yesterday morning.

 

[grumpypebbles]

Two nights ago it was all very brown. Last night there are trace amounts of blood. It's like something burst and bled out or like she was holding it in and then couldn't after the vet palpatated her stomach. The vet also commented that Pebbles seemed to be holding her lower abdominal muscles tightly, which at the time I assumed to be because she was fighting to get out of the vet's grip, but now I'm wondering if maybe that's part of this? I don't know. She didn't eat all her food last night. She left 8 pieces. I'm so worried.
If anyone has any idea on what's happening or any previous experience with uterine cancer/UTIs please let me know.
I will continue to monitor her and her behaviour.
The first picture is last night, the second is the night before that. It is more brown in person and appeared to be far more brown/red as I checked right after she got off her wheel. I haven't heard any sounds from her while on her wheel.

 

[Ragou]

Hi, I am sorry you haven't yet found the real cause of Pebble's problem. But good to hear she's in good spirits. I've found this website and it says that UTI and uterus inflammation can be related to each other, but the spectrum of symptoms varies from mild to severe:

Hedgehog UTI Symptoms

Sometimes hedgehog UTI symptoms may be a sign of something else. A urinary tract infection (UTI) can effect any part of a hedgehog's urinary tract, including th

heavenlyhedgies.com

 

[Kalandra]

How long has she been on the medication? Did doc provide antibiotics & anti-inflammatories? Or just antibiotics?

If she's been on the medication for a while and is showing no sign of improvement, or its just getting worse, its time to talk to doc again. One test that may be possible is to draw urine directly from the bladder. It will tell doc if the blood is in the bladder or getting mixed in later in the system.

If it is uterine, she needs a spay.

 

[grumpypebbles]

Hi, I am sorry you haven't yet found the real cause of Pebble's problem. But good to hear she's in good spirits. I've found this website and it says that UTI and uterus inflammation can be related to each other, but the spectrum of symptoms varies from mild to severe:
[URL
unfurl="true"]https://heavenlyhedgies.com/hedgehog-uti-symptoms/[/URL]

Thank you once again for your reply- and the link to the website. I'll definitely have a read through it and see if anything matches.

How long has she been on the medication? Did doc provide antibiotics & anti-inflammatories? Or just antibiotics?

If she's been on the medication for a while and is showing no sign of improvement, or its just getting worse, its time to talk to doc again. One test that may be possible is to draw urine directly from the bladder. It will tell doc if the blood is in the bladder or getting mixed in later in the system.

If it is uterine, she needs a spay.

The only medication she is on is lactuolose as she was having mild constipation, ans has been on that for four days. It was also to check if the blood was coming from her poop, as at the time of the first vet trip I was uncertain of where the blood was coming from. The vet sent a fecal sample tube home and it never got used, as that night Pebbles confirmed it wasn't from her poop.
There is no blood today. Have things gotten better or should I be on high alert for another round of bleeding? Where did the huge gush of blood come from, could it be a cyst of some sort that burst? I'm not sure.
Do you know how much having a needle draw done usually costs? I know nothing with hedgehogs and vets tends to be cheap, but being able to budget ahead for further testing would definitely be a good idea. I'm guessing it will likely be around $100 as that's about what the vet quoted us to do fecal testing.
Thank you so much for your reply.

 

[Kalandra]

Sadly, the cost of veterinary help for exotics is expensive, and each vet seems to charge various amounts. I haven't had a urine draw in over 10 years, so I cannot guess the cost of it today. Its something to ask the vet though.

She needs more diagnostic tests or exams to determine the nature of the blood. Or at least try some antibiotics in case it is UTI.

From experience with one hedgehog we struggled with, he had a UTI and had good days and bad days with blood. Meaning some days it was barely noticeable, and some days it was bright red. That same male later had a male reproductive cancer (cowper gland) that also mimicked a UTI in the way he bled.

 

[grumpypebbles]

So the only way to tell is either antibiotics or further testing. That makes sense, with how close the two seem to be in symptoms. I'll look into making anothet vet appointment, for antibiotics at the least. Thank you so much for your replies, I appreciate them a lot.

 

[Ragou]

How is Pebbles doing? Better I hope

 

[grumpypebbles]

Well, there hasn't been anymore huge gushes of blood, thankfully! Still small amounts, but only enough to be barely noticeable, mainly in footprints.
Sadly I'm not sure it's worth a second vet trip right now. Her snout has gotten larger and she was a lot more careful to eat a piece of her kibble. I didn't get too good of a look last night, so I'll be trying again tonight, but I'm very worried it is cancer and now it's spread
I'll post another update once I get a closer look at her snout/mouth.. For now I'll attach the pictures I was able to get, as well as an older one for comparision (The picture with the blue towel is from last night, the one with the broom is from a few months ago).

Thank you for responding again though to ask how Pebbles is doing it's extremely kind of you! I wish I could have brought better news

 

[Cqtxcoastalquills]

I had a 4 year old girl that started like this peed in the bath. I was taking her in for antibiotics to treat a uti next day and through the night there was blood loss all over the wheel. It was devastating I lost her. I have also heard of this happening with breeding females and them going on to continue carrying a healthy pregnancy. I do not know why this happens I just feel like the wheel and strenuous activity can contribute to blood loss to the point it is too late. I feel like you should call your vet and discuss what is happening and talk about whether or not the wheel should be removed from the enclosure. Running on the wheel can increase the amount of blood lost.

 

[grumpypebbles]

Pebbles is definitely not pregnant, that I know lol!
You make some good points about the wheel, but the few times I have had to remove it from Pebbles's enclosure (broken wheel, cut nail quick) She became incredibly stressed out, attemped to escape (and succeeded twice before I changed her enclosure), threw everything in her cage around and became destructive towards her walls and toys. Putting it back in solved all problems immediately and she would start running. I feel like removing it at this point would cause her far more stress than leaving it in- she loves her wheel too much lol!
Thank you for the advice though, and I am sorry you lost your hedgie

 

[hedgehaus]

Pebbles is definitely not pregnant, that I know lol!
You make some good points about the wheel, but the few times I have had to remove it from Pebbles's enclosure (broken wheel, cut nail quick) She became incredibly stressed out, attemped to escape (and succeeded twice before I changed her enclosure), threw everything in her cage around and became destructive towards her walls and toys. Putting it back in solved all problems immediately and she would start running. I feel like removing it at this point would cause her far more stress than leaving it in- she loves her wheel too much lol!
Thank you for the advice though, and I am sorry you lost your hedgie

She is 3.5 years old which is the beginning of getting up there in age, too. And despite our best efforts, unfortunately breeders can't eradicate every health issue, especially in older age. I would definitely seek out a vet with a lot of hedgehog experience that can help stop the bleeding. If she is still eating and drinking, she's probably stable enough for the moment, and it's good the blood has eased up. But if it is something like cancer, etc, I would not want to prolong suffering and constant bleeding if there is no solution. I am so sorry you and your baby are dealing with this. An experienced vet will hopefully have better advice.

 

[Cqtxcoastalquills]

Pebbles is definitely not pregnant, that I know lol!
You make some good points about the wheel, but the few times I have had to remove it from Pebbles's enclosure (broken wheel, cut nail quick) She became incredibly stressed out, attemped to escape (and succeeded twice before I changed her enclosure), threw everything in her cage around and became destructive towards her walls and toys. Putting it back in solved all problems immediately and she would start running. I feel like removing it at this point would cause her far more stress than leaving it in- she loves her wheel too much lol!
Thank you for the advice though, and I am sorry you lost your hedgie

It definitely sounds like pebbles cannot do without! understandable bleeding like that is an emergency! Can you contact the original breeder to report this issue and see if they have any solutions to offer also.

 

[grumpypebbles]

In reply to both of the above replies-
I don't know Pebbles's breeder, as she is a rescue. Unfortunately that also means I also don't know how old she actually is, just that three and a half is the best guess (and the minimum).
I took her to see a vet a few weeks ago and the vet wasn't able to feel any obvious uterine or abdominal swelling, though I feel like her probing caused a cyst of some sort to burst and that's whete the huge dump of blood came from. The vet explained it could be a UTI, but as Pebbles is older, it is likely that it is uterine cancer. I agreed with this as Pebbles doesn't seem to have any issues peeing, no sounds, no straining, no small bouts.
I have not taken her back since as I'm sure that Pebbles won't come home, and I wanted to wait to see how she was doing. I hate leaving her, especially if she is in pain. It's hard to tell. She's already a very irritable hedgie (always has been!) So I'm mainly watching for dietary changes and inactivity. I wish there was a better way to tell if she is in pain
Thank you for the well-wishes.

 

[Ragou]

Thank you for responding again though to ask how Pebbles is doing it's extremely kind of you! I wish I could have brought better news

Oh what a sweet baby! I couldn't tell by the picture that she's sick, but I know it's not easy for you both right now.

I agree that the best you can do now is to make her days as bright and painless as you can and follow her condition closely. Wishing all the best!

 

[grumpypebbles]

Oh what a sweet baby! I couldn't tell by the picture that she's sick, but I know it's not easy for you both right now.

I agree that the best you can do now is to make her days as bright and painless as you can and follow her condition closely. Wishing all the best!

Thank you I'm hoping I've already given her a good life and that I can continue that right up until the end. I'll be sure to give her plenty of love, cuddles, and treats!
Thank you again for the well wishes, they are very much appreciated