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Old 09-18-2013, 12:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Mites treatment - no Revolution, what to use?

Hi everyone,

Hoping someone can help me out.

Buddy has mites, problem is that I live in a place that doesn't have Revolution, and hogs are relatively new here so the vet didn't really have a clue. The vet has given me cat drops from the make 'Advocate', the ingredients say Imidacloprid and Moxidectina, he's told me to use the entire dropper on him although I know that's waaaay too much for a little hedgie.

I went to our local pet shop to pick up some mealies for him and while I was there I asked what they suggested because I know the owner has some hogs himself. He's told me that the Advocate is rubbish, and it's more for fleas anyway and he's suggested a spray called Effipro, the main ingredient is 2.5mg/ml of Fipronil and he's said it's just one quick spray to the back of the head.

Anyone have some advice on which one I should use on him? Or which one I should definitely not use?

Thanks
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The active ingredient in Revolution is selamectin; you might be able to find a generic/different brand of it? If you can, the dosage of the active ingredient is 6 mg selamectin per kg of body weight; come back and re-post if you need help figuring out the dosage for whatever dilution you have.

I need to run at the moment, but I'll be back in a few hours to research the drugs you have available if no one else has responded. I find Daily Med to be an amazing resource for figuring out what active ingredients serve what function at what dosage.
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Did a search on Google for any other products with selamectin and it looks like Revolution is the only one : (
In any case, I decided to try putting a few drops of the Advantage on him, someone on Hedgehog Happenings kindly gave me a list of ingredients that are generally known to be safe for hogs and the Imidacloprid was on it, so I thought I can try a little bit and see what happens.
So I put three tiny drops on him, and he absolutely freaked out. He closed both his eyes as if they were hurting him, and started freaking out and rubbing himself on everything! I got really scared and rushed him to the sink and tried desperately to wash off the Advocate. I honestly thought I'd killed him.
Few minutes later, he's totally fine and stuffing his face with the treats I held out for him -.- so what gives? I dunno if he just freaked out cos 'omg there's something on me, getitoffgetitoffgetitoff' or if it genuinely hurt him!
Gah!
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Imidacloprid moxidectin is for treating fleas, heartworm, and intestinal parasites (hookworm, roundworm, whip worm). It cannot be ingested (apply where no tongue can reach) or the side-effects get super-scary very quickly. Dosage in cats is 10.0 mg/kg, BUT is restricted to cats weighing at LEAST 2 lbs (900g). It sounds like it would be useless on mites, and the side-effects from overdosing sound unpleasant and risky.

I could only find Fipronil as a component, which is useless for figuring out intended usage.

It looks like Effipro is a broad-spectrum insecticide. It's marketed for fleas, ticks, and chewing lice, but apparently also works for mites (page 6 description of Fiproni). You'd absolutely need to use Effipro, not the very-similar dog-targted Effitix, which has an additional ingredient that is highly toxic to cats & bunnies, so probably isn't very good for hedgehogs. The medication needs to be applied directly to the skin somewhere it CANNOT be ingested (between quills at the shoulder blades is where we usually dose Revolution), and no washing for 24 hours after administration. Dosage is by weight, but I can't find anyone directly spelling out what the relationship is, even with the manufacturer's detailed paperwork. Dosing frequency is once every 6 weeks.

I don't want to recommend anything, because I'm not a vet, I'm not a biologist, and I don't want to be responsible for any adverse reactions with your hedgehog.

If it were me in your situation, I would:
1. Attempt to find selamectin under another brand-name.
2. Try to mail-order/special order some selamectin medication.
3. NOT use the Imidacloprid moxidectin as it does not seem like it would be effective, and would be extremely easy to overdose.
4. Last-ditch last-choice, try to figure out a reduce dosage for the Fiproni, and be hyper-vigilant of keeping hedgehog from anointing with it, and of side-effects.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I know you said the vet gave you cat drops, but this says that for the dog treatments, there may be neurological side effects with Advocate, although it's rare and usually happens to hypersensitive dogs. http://thedoginfoblog.com/advocate-for-dogs/

There's also always a possibility of irritation whenever a topical solution is applied. Were the drops cold maybe?
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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An alternate brand-name for Revolution is Stronghold, and seems to be available in most of Europe...
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Alright, it looks like you need an ectoparasiticide for topical application to successfully kill mites. Imidacloprid and Fipronil are both ectoparasicides, so they could both theoretically work, if you can figure out the right dosing. If you can't figure out a by-weight dosage, maybe a quarter to half whatever is a kitten-dose? Read the side-effects, particularly for overdoses, carefully when deciding which one to use.

You could try dripping some cold water on his back, to figure out if the reaction is to anything eek-eek-what-is-this, or if it is to the drug specifically.

Good luck! I do not envy your situation.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Will have a look in to the Stronghold stuff. Hoping that I managed to wash off all the Advocate, it's not water resistant so I should have taken most of it off.

If I can't get my hands on Stronghold I will try the Effipro and hope for the best.

Thanks for your help : )
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thought I'd update for anyone who finds this thread wondering if Advocate or Effipro is safe.

Buddy is safe and well, I tried applying two more drops of the Advocate to see if the freak out reaction was caused by the actual drops or him being a drama queen and it turns out it's the latter. When I applied the next two drops he didn't even twitch, and he promptly went to sleep again. He's totally stopped scratching and his skin is getting better so it looks like it's working!
I am in no way saying that it won't react badly for others, so I'd definitely advise that if anyone wants to try Advocate, keep an eye on your hedgie for any unusual activity/reaction.
As for dosage, I'm using the under 4kg kitten one and in total (after I washed most of it off) I'd say there are probably 3 drops of it on him.
I don't want to say it's been ok for Buddy and then have someone else try it and have the opposite happen so, as with everything, speak to your vet, hopefully he/she is more knowledgeable than mine was and can give you some good advice!

I haven't tried the Effipro but if I do at any point I'll try to remember to update for future reference.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thank you for doing the follow-up! I was really wondering what had happened, and if your small friend was feeling better.
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