Curious, why do people say domesticated hedgehogs are hybrid? - Hedgehog Central Hedgehog pet care & owner forum
Hedgehog Central GalleryForum Archives Facebook Link

Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-03-2013, 04:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Haley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 212
Default Curious, why do people say domesticated hedgehogs are hybrid?

I wonder where this information originates? I know it is repeated often, I'm wondering if anyone knows more.

Which two species? There are currently 16 identified, they keep adding new ones.

I ask because generally speaking you don't get fertile offspring in hybrids. Subspecies you do, but with a subspecies you have a single gene pool.
fishhead likes this.
Haley is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,566
Default

The major importer in the early 90s primarily shipped in Central African & and Algerian hedgehogs.
nikki likes this.
Kalandra is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2013, 08:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Northern Wastelands
Posts: 1,922
Default

What's the difference between subspecies and hybrids?
Annie&Tibbers is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-03-2013, 09:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
Lilysmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 11,963
Default

A subspecies is where a group of the species has been isolated and evolved to be just different enough (in markings, behaviors, etc.) to become a subspecies of the main species. For example, barn owls are found worldwide, but there's at least 20 subspecies based on slight variations in coloring in populations found in different countries/continents. The genes are still pretty much exactly the same, there's just slight variations due to being isolated from another population of the same species.

Hybrid is an animal that's from two different species bred together - most of them come from human interference, I believe. Examples would be a mule (horse/donkey), liger (lion/tiger), etc. The two species' genes are close enough that offspring can be produced, but in the wild, those species generally wouldn't mate due to behavior differences, different ranges, etc. Like Haley said, most hybrids aren't fertile - you'd have to breed the two original species in order to get the hybrid again.

Hopefully that explanation actually makes sense...I'm not always good at explaining things.
__________________
~*~*~ Kelsey ~*~*~

RIP my sweet Lily ~ 6/12/08 - 1/20/12
Lilysmommy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2013, 10:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Northern Wastelands
Posts: 1,922
Default

So, are dog or cat breeds hybrids, or subspecies? The colourations, shapes, sizes, and attitudes vary substantially between breeds, yet they are clearly capable of cross-breeding (between dog breeds or between cat breeds, not terrifying cat-dog hybrids!).
Annie&Tibbers is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2013, 10:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
Lilysmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 11,963
Default

I think they'd be considered subspecies, just extremely varied subspecies? The same with other domesticated animals like cows, sheep, horses, pigeons, chickens, etc. We call them breeds, but I think they'd also be subspecies. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm mostly guessing on this one!)
__________________
~*~*~ Kelsey ~*~*~

RIP my sweet Lily ~ 6/12/08 - 1/20/12
Lilysmommy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2013, 10:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,566
Default

This is an interesting read about cat breeds vs subspecies.

http://www.messybeast.com/breed-subspecies.htm
Lilysmommy and fishhead like this.
Kalandra is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2013, 10:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Northern Wastelands
Posts: 1,922
Default

So, at this point, would it be more accurate to describe domesticated hedgehogs that were produced via breeding several subspecies of smaller hedgehogs (including the Central African and Algerian varieties) together?

The whole thing about hybrids having reduced fertility also seems to be more "rule of thumb" than hard reality. Female grizzly-polar bear hybrids can be fertile, and at least one female lion-tiger hybrid (ligers) has been bred with a lion to produce liligers.

It also seems like a wide swatch of the canis genus (wolves, coyotes, jackals, dingos and domestic dogs) can all breed and produce fertile young, yet clearly dingos are not the same species as wolves. I wonder if the hedgehogs are more like that -- extremely closely related species that can interbreed without any noticeable impact on fertility?
Annie&Tibbers is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2013, 12:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Tongue_Flicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Madina't Isa, Bahrain
Posts: 1,122
Default

Any offspring from 2 animals with different genuses are considered hybrids. From what i read, domesticated hedgehogs came from hybridizing 4 genus of wild hedgehogs. Hybridization among animals has long been an issue of endless debates.

Also, hyrid animals does not have scientific (Latin) names as they are out of the taxonomy tree. As a result they are named according to their color forms. Simply put, any animal without a scientific name is a hybrid.
__________________

Neil

" With great power comes great electricity bill... "
Tongue_Flicker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2013, 07:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Haley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 212
Default

Intresting. Thanks!
Haley is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hedgehog Central Hedgehog pet care & owner forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can hedgehogs catch a common cold from people? MrPinball General Questions 6 03-03-2014 05:03 PM
People giving away hedgehogs lately GoldenEyes Off Topic 15 11-09-2011 10:16 AM
just curious roxy Housing & Accessories 3 12-17-2009 12:07 AM
Hello people, I'm new to hedgehogs... Kara General Questions 8 12-03-2008 10:17 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:52 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum