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Old 06-27-2009, 01:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Green poop and not eating/not active

I hope someone can help me. I am going to call my vet first thing in the morning, but my hedgie isn't right. He has green, sticky poop.
He's 3 months old and hasn't really eaten much in the last week or so. He eats a little like a kibble or a mealie but not his normal at all. He's not running on his wheel either. His body temperature is lower than it should be but he hasn't tried to hibernate. He burrows under his log or blankies all the time. I use a heating pad and ceramic heater when I'm home and at night and a microwavable heat disk when I'm not home. His cage temp is around 76-78. He has a lamp next to his cage that goes off at 11pm. His eyes and nose are clear and I haven't seen any mites and he's not scratching. He walks fine too and doesn't seem to have any mouth problems or any other physical issues.

This all started a little more than a week ago. My dad was visiting and sleeping on the couch next to Bojangles' cage. My dad couldn't sleep because Bo was running on his wheel all night so he asked me if I could just move his wheel to the other side of the cage. So I did. I just reversed the wheel and his food and water bowls (which were on opposite sides), and after my dad left, I put the cage back. My dad still heard Bo on his wheel the last night he was here. But ever since he left, Bo hasn't been active at all and hasn't been eating. My dad left a week ago.

I haven't seen poop in his cage but when I pick him up, he green poops on me. It sticks to my skin pretty good and smells icky too. I haven't seen any blood or vomit.

Tonight, Bo took some diluted A/D in a syringe. He huffed and his quills were sticking straight up but he took it. He's never been on a syringe before and didn't know what to think before and got food all over his face. After my 2nd feeding attempt, he bit down on the syringe and let me feed him a few cc's. I've also put some A/D in his bowl along with some chicken baby food and a hard boiled egg. So far he's not interested. I can't tell if he's dehydrated because he doesn't really let me grab his back. His quills are straight up. I did give him some water in the syringe after the A/D. He didn't go for it but at least there was some water in with the A/D.

I have to admit, my dad was here helping me out with my dog who's in kidney failure, and after he left I still have a lot of time spent with my dog. I've been trying to monitor Bo as much as possible, but I do admit my priority has been my dog.

Do any of you think he could have an infection? Or is it just stress from the cage switch or him picking up on my stress?

Sorry this is so long. I just wanted you to have all the details to see if anyone can offer any advice.
Thanks.
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Definitely needs a vet NOW, this is an emergency. After 3 days of not eating they can get fatty liver disease. He probably needs some sub-q fluids and something to spark his appetite, like prednisone, plus syringe feedings for awhile.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Thanks for replying.

I talked to my vet and asked him about Fatty Liver Disease. He thankfully didn't seem too concerned about it and didn't see any symptoms of it like yellowing or anything. And Bo eats pretty high-quality food too (before this hunger strike). I fed him more syringed A/V this morning and this afternoon. My vet suggested I try some yogurt too, so I diluted some strawberry flavored yogurt and Bojangles took some, but not a whole lot. He likes A/V much better.
I was up at 3:30 am with my dog, and checked on Bojangles while I was up. He was sitting on his wheel. I hadn't heard him walking or running on it either before or after I came in the house with my dog, but it was interesting (and hopefully a good sign) that he was on it. I also saw some fresh poop on his cage liner that was a little slimy but brownish with a hint of olive green.
My vet suggested I get some pedialyte and report back to him on Monday with continuing yogurt and A/D as needed.

I really hope Bojangles isn't more sick than my vet thinks. I have full trust in my vet's abilities and knowledge. He knows exotics well (he's the exotics expert on my side of town) and has been treating my dog for years too. I just hope he's right.

He's still burrowing, huffing and very very squirmy when I try to feed him.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Good luck with both your hedgie boy and your dog! I know how hard it can be to have an ill pet and to have two at once would be awful! I hope both find relief soon!
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Deneen is right. A 3 month old hedgehog who has been sick for a week should be seen by a vet, not brushed off with "if it's still happening Monday, come in". It may be nothing, it may be something significant. Internet diagnosis isn't the way to go. And a vet who says there is no yellowing re FLD is way behind the times. Yellow deposits are from FLD from overfeeding/underexercising. FLD from anorexia doesn't immediately display the yellow deposits.

Personally, I think your heating routine is whacked. You can't maintain heat with a microwave disc. The ceramic heat emitter should be on a thermostat and left on 24/7/365. A heating pad only works if the hedgehog is immobile as does the heat disc.

I hope the weekend doesn't end you up at the ER Vet.
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Thank you hedgemom for being so rude. I'm done here.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Fatty Liver Disease (FLD) does not show up as yellowing of the skin. It is seen during a necrospy. Hedgies can die very quickly from it.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Quote:
Originally Posted by bojangles
Thank you hedgemom for being so rude. I'm done here.
I know some people can seem as if they are trying to be rude. I had this experience myself about a week ago and was ready to leave the forums. What I've realized is that no one here intends to be rude, they are just very passionate about hedgies.

That being said, I do agree with Hedgemom...you probably should consider another alternative to using heating pads is not a good idea except in case of emergencies like electricity failure. Hedgies can burn their tummies on them and they don't keep the entire cage warm. I keep a ceramic heat emitter on 24/7 for my hedgie and have a thermometer and adjustment knob on the emitter in the cage so I can regulate temperature.

I don't know anything about FLD beyond what I have found in research and read on these forums, but I do know that any illness can become serious in hedgies very quickly. They don't show symptoms until they are very ill. It sounds like you have at least talked to your vet, but if he has given you misinformation, it might be a good idea to seek out an emergency clinic. It would be terrible if something happened to your little guy as a result of misinformation.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

I don't think she was rude at all. In fact, I like straight forward answers that go straight to the point. It's just that, from what I have read and my own opinion, something as serious as not eating for over a week is getting brushed off too lightly.

IMO, anytime a vet who thinks that not eating properly for over a week is not a big problem, means that it's time for a second opinion and see another vet.
For something as little as a hedgehog to not be eating, means losing a lot of weight rapidly. It's very unhealthy for them to lose weight that quickly(as others above have mentioned with the FLD), and they are small to begin with, and there is not much "extra" weight to be lost.

Going a little off topic, but same basic situation...
My dog had pancreatitis and he could not keep any food down. It exits much too quickly from both ends. He started vomitting on Fri evening, took him to ER vet on Sat, got meds and food. It took him a week to recover, and in that week, he lost close to 20lbs(we were lucky that most of it was his winter fat ). Just one little week, and he lost that much. And that was with us coaxing him to eat, and practically shoving it down his throat a few times.

Another OT, but something that luckily hasn't happened to me...
Horses can get ulcers and colic just by not eating for 24hrs. The horse's pH lvl in the stomach goes all the way to 1.6 if they are not eating(from 3 - 5.5 depending on what part of the stomach).

Even humans can't go more than 3-5 days with no food and water.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

May I ask why you turn the ceramic emitter off? Do you have a thermostat with it? As previously stated, a heating pad or a microwaveable disc does not provide sufficient warmth, as it only heats that one spot. The air would still be cold. It is possible that your hegie has gotten chilled from this cold air.

It's like when you wake up from bed. It's very warm under the covers, but once you get up, that heat can escape and leave your body chilled as it acclimatizes to the cooler air.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyways, that's a bit of off topic personal experiences and personal opinions. I wish you the best of luck with your hedgie and your dog. And, while I understand the need to take care of a sick animal, but right now, your dog isn't the only creature that is sick. I know it's hard, I currently have 3 older dogs and cat and I worry about them. I recently had to put down my oldest cat last fall.
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Green poop and not eating/not active

Three month old babies can go downhill very quickly and your vets attitude is rather surprising and just WRONG! Waiting until Monday could be too late.

Fatty liver disease most often happens from not eating, or not eating very much and it can start in as little as 2 or 3 days. There are no obvious symptoms and it is safe to assume, that any hedgehog that hasn't eaten for a couple of days, or is eating a minimal amount for a few days, is heading toward or has started FLD.

He needs to have minimum 3-4 cc/ml of food 3-4 times per day and more is better. Count his kibble to see if he is eating anything on his own. Try putting some loose kibble in his bed with him as often they will eat when in bed. Make sure you count every piece of kibble you put in his cage and keep track of what he eats. Give fresh food each day as fresh from the bag is more appetizing than what has sat in his dish overnight.

Hedgemom tells it like it is. At times what she says might seem harsh but she often is saying what others are thinking. Hedgemom also knows what she is talking about and will help anyone anytime they need help. She is here for the welfare of the hedgehogs, not to stroke peoples egos.
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