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Old 01-24-2009, 09:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

An update to Satin's quill & weight loss. The background is here https://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forum...php?f=5&t=1136

Results of the tests came back. No cancerous cells. No bacteria. No mites (again). Something that looks like it might be yeast, but was in such small amounts the vet didn't want to treat at this time with medication. But if Satin experienced even more quill loss, she recommends an antifungal.

She's consulted with another vet who's cared for hedgies. And who used to have hedgies of her own. Together they thought it might be a nutritional thing and decided it would be best to treat for mites even though there's no sign of them.

Nutritionally, she recommended "hedgehog pellets" over CSCLS (Satin is currently on CSCLS-lite, Wellness Indoor Cat, and Spike's Delite Premium - ratio about 4 parts CS : 2 parts Wellness : 1 part Spike's). She also recommended upping the insects - specifically adding wax worms and crickets. She cautioned against going crazy with the waxworm addition given they are higher in fat. She also recommended beta carotene a couple drops ~2x/week.

As for the possible mites, she recommended Ivomec .12cc orally, then again at 2 and 4 weeks.

As Satin's had crickets before, I gave her one tonight. She ate it's innards, left the exoskeleton, and anointed all over my thumb. I bought a tub of wax worms today and will check them out tomorrow. I'm okay with increasing the ratio of Spike's, but am not going to drop the CSCLS or Wellness. And have no idea about the beta carotene... apparently, it helps boost the immune system - I learned that by reading the label. Probably couldn't hurt, right?

The Ivomec... that's what really stumps me. I have it at home. Was scheduled to give that to her tonight, but didn't. I put in a call to the vet to chat about Revolution, but she hasn't called me back yet. I know by talking with the front office, the vet doesn't carry it, but I see on 1-800-pet-meds, I can buy an inordinate amount of it for ~$40 and am considering that.

I just feel really unsure about the recommendations - particularly about the treating yeast nutritionally and possible mites with Ivomec.
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

I agree with treating her for mites regardless of the results of the skin scrap. I am not comfortable with Ivomectin although orally is safer than injection, topically safer still. I'd go with Revolution.

I don't agree with putting her on a hedgehog food. She's already getting Select Diet and it is one of the more recommended hedgehog foods.

I think treat her for mites first. Then possibly the anti fungal. After that, I'd start thinking hormonal.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

Thanks Nancy. I just ordered the Revolution (sounds like that should be a song, eh?). Hopefully it'll arrive soon!
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

I'm starting to wonder if maybe there is a food allergy going on. Did you switch her foods anywhere near the time the quill loss started? Say 1-2 months before? Yes I'm pulling at strings.

What hedgehog food did she recommend? I see nothing wrong with the foods you are currently feeding (personal opinion).
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

Hmm... I did switch from Wellness lite (purple bag) to Wellness Indoor (yellow bag). Though she's had sample packs of Indoor before without issue. But along the allergy line, perhaps the change from vitamin e to flax seed oil could have caused it. But why it's going on so long after I stopped the flax seed oil, I'm not sure.

The vet didn't recommend any particular type of hedgehog food. She just said "hedgehog pellets." I figure Spike's Delite qualifies as hedgehog pellets. Funny thing about that - I did increase the ratio of Spikes Delite to the other two foods (CSCLS & Wellness) starting Friday night after the phone call. The result was Satin picked around much of Spike's and ate the other stuff, so I just end up refilling her dish 2x/day instead of 1. Hedge outsmarts human.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

If its a allergy I would expect it may not stop. I wonder if it would be worth trying to limit what is being given to her and see if removing something makes it stop. Like switch back to vitamin E over flaxseed, or better yet don't use anything at all for a bit to see if there is improvement. May be something to talk to doc about again.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

hey Smhufflepuff, if you ordered too much revolution i wouldn't mind going halveses on it with you. just gimme a PM, because my vet doesnt carry it either.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

Diagnosing quill loss can be difficult because damage can occur to the quill follicle and the quill won't fall out for a couple of weeks so you think what you are trying isn't working.

Hopefully the revolution will work and she'll quit loosing quills and start to grow them back in.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: at a cross roads, could use your input - quill loss & tx

Good to know that the there's a several week time frame in between when damage occurs and the quill falls out - thanks.

For now, we will be steering clear of the vit e and flaxseed oil. I'll hope maybe it was that which caused/contributed to the problem... along with the original bacterial infection.

I'm still recording between ~10-20 quills lost per day. I've taken to writing down how many I find in the morning and evening. Fortunately, throughout this, I've always seen new quills growing in. I can imagine that probably feels rather uncomfortable for her - to have these new quills poking through. Unfortunately, the rate of quills falling out greatly exceeds the rate of growth.

She's also back to having rather dry skin. The vet didn't have any particular means of helping moisturize her skin other than long-term nutritional changes. I put a pan of water near her heat emitters a few weeks back as a way of trying to make the air less dry near her. And I'm thinking I'll give her a bath tonight with the colloidal oatmeal.
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Tex Buckaroo Hufflepuff -- What a good boy
Bella Stormrider Hufflepuff -- Welcome home sweetie
Marlee Twyla Hufflepuff -- Big little girl
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