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Old 09-22-2014, 08:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Problems gripping Wheel While a Running

I wasn't sure if this was a question for the general forum of for the cage, bedding forum.

Anyways, my moms hedgehog Maleka uses a large pink Carolina a Storm Wheel and as I watch her try to run on it she's having trouble gripping it to get it to continue going around so she runs one direction as far as she can get it to go, and than turns around and goes back the other direction and vice versa. I checked the bolts on the back and made sure they weren't too tight and I spun it myself and it spun nice and smooth and it was easy but as soon as she gets on it it's almost like she can't grip it to keep it going because there's no tread on it. I'm wondering if we may need to go buy her a comfort wheel that had the little strips that their nails can grip to keep it spinning?

Wondering if anyone else has any other suggestions because the Carolina storm wheel is smooth when it's clean so she has nothing to grip to. My mom has another wheel she bought at a yard sale but it has little holes and I'm afraid her toes might get caught so I wouldn't dare put it in her cage. I myself use the comfort wheel for both of my hedgehogs and they both run marathons and love it it's just sad seeing her Hedgie having such a hard time trying to run, just running back and fourth.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated..
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If the hog is slipping try tilting the wheel back some, we have a very short video on our site to show how it's done.
http://www.carolinastormhedgehogs.co...ket-wheel.html
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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How can I tell the difference between the CSBW and the CSW? Just wondering so I can figure out what kind of wheel my mom has. I know it's pink, and big and wide, the back looks like there's a dollar blade wheel between the wheel and the post where the bolts and washer is.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GothicBreena View Post
How can I tell the difference between the CSBW and the CSW? Just wondering so I can figure out what kind of wheel my mom has. I know it's pink, and big and wide, the back looks like there's a dollar blade wheel between the wheel and the post where the bolts and washer is.
The CSW only comes in clear, it's made from a cake server. The CSBW comes in a few translucent colors and is made from a bucket. The CSE is made from a feed pan comes in lots of solid colors.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GothicBreena View Post
I wasn't sure if this was a question for the general forum of for the cage, bedding forum.

Anyways, my moms hedgehog Maleka uses a large pink Carolina a Storm Wheel and as I watch her try to run on it she's having trouble gripping it to get it to continue going around so she runs one direction as far as she can get it to go, and than turns around and goes back the other direction and vice versa. I checked the bolts on the back and made sure they weren't too tight and I spun it myself and it spun nice and smooth and it was easy but as soon as she gets on it it's almost like she can't grip it to keep it going because there's no tread on it. I'm wondering if we may need to go buy her a comfort wheel that had the little strips that their nails can grip to keep it spinning?

Wondering if anyone else has any other suggestions because the Carolina storm wheel is smooth when it's clean so she has nothing to grip to. My mom has another wheel she bought at a yard sale but it has little holes and I'm afraid her toes might get caught so I wouldn't dare put it in her cage. I myself use the comfort wheel for both of my hedgehogs and they both run marathons and love it it's just sad seeing her Hedgie having such a hard time trying to run, just running back and fourth.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryT View Post
The CSW only comes in clear, it's made from a cake server. The CSBW comes in a few translucent colors and is made from a bucket. The CSE is made from a feed pan comes in lots of solid colors.
Well Maleka's wheel is a translucent watermelon color with the rollerblade wheel.

Is the rollerblade wheel suppose to be a part of it?
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If it is the translucent, it is the CSBW. My Penny took a little bit of adjusting to get used to it too. I would tilt it backwards as Larry suggested and give her a few days.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My girl couldn't even stay on the wheel when she got her CSW, she slipped right off. I had to angle it backward so that she slid up against the inside of the wheel, and it helped her to be able to run. Eventually they learn how to grip it with their little feet so that they can run properly and it can be tipped forward again.
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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tl;dr
Try laminating a rubbery, textured, shelf lining material to the surface of the wheel by using a heavy-duty indoor/outdoor grade of double-faced tape.
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Verbose version:

Grip can be a problem for some animals, especially once the wheel gets wet with pee. It doesn't seem to be a problem with most hedgehogs but it certainly isn't unheard of. Some animals do have a problem with slipping no matter how much you angle the wheel.
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The CSW has a diameter of about ~12 inches, with a minor taper; slightly smaller diameter to the inside of the wheel.

The CSBW is 10 1/2" in diameter; small IMO. It is, from a construction view, a fine wheel, but I strongly recommend the largest wheel possible.

The CSE is slightly larger in diameter than the CSBW with a tapering diameter; from ~11.2" to ~10.3".

I own all three wheels; part of my research to building a bigger wheel for Sophie. Larger is better and I can only recommend the CSW. That was Sophie's first wheel and she put over 1,400 hours on it before I upgraded the wheel.

Lots of people like the CSBW, but I just cannot recommend anything smaller than 12" in diameter.

I don't care for the CSE at all; just my preference.

NOTE: All of the above is my opinion and mine alone, but I own all three wheels now and have made treadwheels something of a specialty.

Larry has thousands of happy customers and hedgehogs and has earned every one of them. (Myself included for the largest, the CSW.)

NOTE: My comments are specific to Larry's wheels only because they are what every one buys, they are the standard that everyone refers to, and I own them all. My comments are equally valid to all similar bucket-style wheels.


My main concern is "What is an ideal diameter?" It should be noted, in fairness, that my view of 12" wheels as an absolute minimum, and that bigger is better, is a minority view.
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Sophie's first wheel was a CSW and it worked out fantastically well for her (over 1,400 hours of use and still like brand new). However, I just could not continue to watch her on a 12" wheel any longer and designed an 18" diameter wheel; experimenting up to 23".


This larger diameter greatly increases the stride length that she can take.She is able to take a longer and much more natural stride. This dramatically reduces the unpleasant visual of seeing her front legs unnaturally angled up the front of the wheel and her back legs at an even more unnatural position angling up the back of the wheel. The 18" diameter of her new wheel is a strong design upgrade IMO. I believe the that the larger diameter is much healthier for her; short-term and long-term.
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To come back round to the slippage problem, when I upgraded Sophie to an 18" diameter wheel I opted to use 4 mm corrugated plastic for the running lanes. I have several tracks and they simply friction fit into place. The track that she got dirty last night was washed and set aside to fully dry and another of her tracks replaced it.

I was concerned that corrugated plastic would be too slick a running surface and decided to permanently laminate a rubbery, textured, shelf lining material to the corrugated plastic by using a heavy-duty indoor/outdoor grade of double-faced tape. Her new wheel has been in use since 22 December 2013 and performs flawlessly.

Cleaning takes just a few minutes longer but its three piece modular construction (running track, wheel body, wheel frame), makes cleaning and sanitation pretty easy to deal with.
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IMAGES:

4 mm corrugated plastic track ready to be prepped with heavy-duty double-faced tape.
http://serenebreezes.com/treadwheel/...a/IMG_7618.jpg

Packaging: 1.41" x 42' tape
http://serenebreezes.com/treadwheel/...pet-tape-b.jpg

Packaging: 1.88" x 75' tape. (My preference. Same brand, same quality, better deal.)
http://serenebreezes.com/treadwheel/...arpet-tape.jpg

Duck brand, rubbery, textured, shelf liner. 20" wide x 18' long.
http://serenebreezes.com/treadwheel/...c/IMG_7673.jpg

Packaging: rubberized, textured shelf liner.
http://serenebreezes.com/treadwheel/...ip-surface.jpg

Completed running tracks.
http://serenebreezes.com/treadwheel/...f/IMG_7709.jpg
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VIDEO:

Short video tour of Sophie's 18" treadwheel. The video is longish for most people I reckon, but would be seriously long if it went into much detail on any one aspect of it.
wheel-tour-in-cage-14-02-07
(9:55)
http://youtu.be/wuGBFd64vjU
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I have hours and hours and hours of video on the design and construction of the 18" treadwheel, and over 70,000 words of partially edited text. Maybe someday I'll put together a monograph on the topic and project.

The wheel uses 1" pipe for the frame instead of the ususal 3/4", and it is a full four-sided frame. However, the math (which I won't go into here) fully justifies and supports the space allotment required for this wheel in a 2 grid x 4 grid C&C style cage. We don't use C&C anymore, but that is the best comparison because C&C is still what most people use.

.
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Gothic Breena, I'm pretty sure I have the same wheel as you; a transcluscent watermelon color with a roller blade wheel on the back. If so, it's the CSBW, and tilting it back also helped my girl maintain grip as well.

And Erizo, I'm not completely sure, but it's my understanding that the CSE (Carolina Storm Express), isn't meant for hedgehogs, unless they are unusually small. I think it's meant for small mice, hamsters, etc, because it has a smaller inside diameter than the others. Also, I do agree with you that bigger is better, but unfortunately, even a wheel with a 12 inch diameter is considered pretty big for some cages. I have a 2x3 C&C cage (I wish I could make it bigger but unfortunately I have limited space in my apartment), and my girl's wheel takes up a fair amount of space already, with all her tunnels, toys, a dig box in there too. I guess my point is, not everyone can afford enough space for their hedgies to have a very large wheel, one even bigger than the CSW.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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[quote]And Erizo, I'm not completely sure, but it's my understanding that the CSE (Carolina Storm Express), isn't meant for hedgehogs, unless they are unusually small. I think it's meant for small mice, hamsters, etc, because it has a smaller inside diameter than the others. Also, I do agree with you that bigger is better, but unfortunately, even a wheel with a 12 inch diameter is considered pretty big for some cages. I have a 2x3 C&C cage (I wish I could make it bigger but unfortunately I have limited space in my apartment), and my girl's wheel takes up a fair amount of space already, with all her tunnels, toys, a dig box in there too. I guess my point is, not everyone can afford enough space for their hedgies to have a very large wheel, one even bigger than the CSW. [/quote

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Yes, the website specifically notes, among other points, "smaller hedgehogs", though I just don't care for the CSE in general. It's perfect for many people, gets great word of mouth, and I am absolutely willing to note that I'm an outlier opinion-wise.

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If a hedgehog's cage doesn't reasonably accommodate a 12" wheel and other needed gear, then the cage is too small - IMO.

The standard recommendations for the minimum size of a hedgehog cage are disappointingly low; almost atrociously so.

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Certainly I understand that the step up to 18" is only viable for a select group and percentage of owners. It's not for everyone. With a C&C cage smaller than 2 grid x 4 grid (or equivalent with another material) the math gets difficult and space goes fast. You are correct that an 18" wheel in a 2 grid x 3 grid cage is problematic; seriously so.

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An 18" diameter wheel will utilize, including a complete litter area, ~550 square inches. If using a C&C cage as a reference point (because they are so commonly used), a 2 grid x 4 grid cage should yield about ~1,550 usable square inches of interior space. The larger treadwheel and litter area will require approximately 36% of total available interior space. With well thought out selection and placement of gear, this is a reasonable percentage for two key elements of the cage. Also, I think it reasonable to deem the wheel as the most important piece of gear in the cage; something extra to take into consideration.

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Sophie's usable cage space is 26" x 68" =1,768 square inches. Her treadhweel, litter area, and a bonus 24" long x 4" diameter PVC tunnel at the the front of cage take up 650 square inches, about 37% of the total available space. This leaves room for her main hiding tunnel (one long-sweep 90 degree bend on each end of a 12" length of pipe - 4" PVC), her igloo house (with fleece burrow), food and water dishes, and at least three major running lanes. There is one running lane on each side of her main hiding tunnel (and circling around both ends), and one 3 1/2" wide running lane behind her wheel (which leads toward her main hiding tunnel and running lanes or her secondary tunnel (and a running lane beside it (depending on which direction she is headed)).


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People automatically think a wheel that large is impossible, but if they work out the math and plan an efficient layout, many would actually wind up coming out ahead on making the best use of space throughout the cage.


.

Last edited by Erizo; 09-22-2014 at 10:45 PM.
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