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Old 11-26-2012, 06:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

I live in Spring, TX. A city about 30 minutes to an hour north of Houston.

I've found a place called Happyhogs that is located Wolfforth, TX, I believe.

Does anyone else know if this is a good place to adopt hedgies?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:34 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

I've never dealt with them in any way, but judging solely from the website http://www.happyhogs.net/ they look like a pretty decent breeder.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

I also have no experience with them, but just wanted to caution you away from several of the products on their supplies page - Ultra Bites treats aren't healthy (if I remember right, there's corn in them, and nuts), water bottles aren't usually recommended (break teeth, cause dehydration, unnatural drinking position if too high), Silent Spinner wheels aren't safe, and the lattice cat toy balls at the bottom aren't safe (jaws can fit through the spaces and seriously injure the hedgehog). The run-around balls can also be hazardous and a lot of people recommend against them, others think they're okay, but either way, they should only be used with supervision. I personally don't like them at all.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

I personally would not deal with them, seeing what they sell in the supplies area.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

Looking at what she says about the water bottle thats not a good sign. The bottle is 36oz so she only has to change/fill it twice a week? NO water is supposed to be changed daily. Also they don't breed for pedigree? So I am wondering if they inbreed for tempermant instead. They also state that" Also (as of November 2012) we do have every customer sign a contract stating they understand their hedgehog is being sold with no breeding rights and that we do have the right to reclaim the animal through the court of law if breeding is discovered. " How are they going to discover if breeding occured (not that you would do so but will they come to the home and expect to be let in unannounced?) I dont know if that is standard operating procedure but when I got mine from a breeder a long time ago I never had to sign anything like that. Also regarding WHS this is what they put The disease usually shows up within the first 18 months of life so once you're hedgehog has cleared that hurdle--you're good to go! From what I have read that is WRONG also.
Something feels off just from the little I have seen on their site. The refer a friend program? Difference in price for males and females if they are for pets only? One fee is 13 dollars then the other is 10? Sorry I do tend to pick apart things quite a bit but sometimes that helps others see what may have been overlooked.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christemo
I personally would not deal with them, seeing what they sell in the supplies area.
I understand your point, but I feel like a lot of time supplies people/breeders use are pretty subjective, and if someone (like the OP) is already on the forum they can get all the pertinant information for and against those things here.

Other than a few questionable item in the supply area, I think their policies generally point to responsible breeding - i.e. lifetime guaranty against WHS, registration with the IHR, asking people to contact them if they need to rehome their hedgehog, not selling too illegal states/counties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigereyes319
The bottle is 36oz so she only has to change/fill it twice a week?
I saw this too and it was the biggest red flag for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigereyes319
Also they don't breed for pedigree?
.

I think you're possibly taking that a bit out of context. "Here we do not breed for pedigree lines or the biggest litters for the most profit but we take our time finding the best parents to make you the best pet." It doesn't say that they don't consider pedigree in their breeding, but that they are concerned mainly with breeding good "pets". They clearly register their hedgehogs and on the policies page state "we go out of our way to clear (on average) five generations without WHS in our pedigrees and babies."


Again, I don't have any affiliation with this breeder nor have I dealt with them on any level, but they don't look so terrible to me. *Shrug*
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

I have met and dealt with her. I agree that anything given to a hedgie can be subjective. Personally, I use water bottles. I have 70 hogs and cannot wash poopy water dishes daily, but can easily top fill my bottles daily. I have yet to have an issue. When I did have dishes I lost more babies in drowning then it was worth. Just my 2 cents there. She does keep lines, and watches them closely. But she is not going to breed two that have had 7 + size litters, she would rather breed a females with a history of 2, even 1, friendly babies. We have something called "Hedgefest" where a large group of breeders from around the US and Canada get together and have discussions on what lines are showing up with WHS, hedgefest is hosted by two vets with years of experience. Her sites says "usually" which statistically through the hours upon hours of discussion we have seen that is generally what we see. She does not state "every time whs shows up it is this..." Now, I personally do not promote any of the toys or treats, nor do I have anything regarding WHS except a "regular, ill pay for the necropsy and either refund or give you a new hedgie guarantee". She does have good intentions, and her number one focus is the care of her animals. Would I recommend her? I already have. To the comment of the males vs females being more. My females are 175 and my males are 150. This is to keep byb away. I have "rules" per say regarding opposite sex pairs, and will not sell to a home that has the opposite sex already there. We (many in this hedgefest group) have had HUGE issues with a "new breeder" who was trying to buy our stock and breed the crap out of them. This breeder sent in friends to buy, and even started getting rescues. So that is honestly part of the price differences for us up here. Obviously it isnt going to stop them all, but it helps for those trying to make a quick buck.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulmate
I live in Spring, TX. A city about 30 minutes to an hour north of Houston.

I've found a place called Happyhogs that is located Wolfforth, TX, I believe.

Does anyone else know if this is a good place to adopt hedgies?
Hi Soulmate!
I have only had one customer from Spring, TX this year and I recall who you are. I'm glad you're doing your research and making the best decision you can about where to get your hedgehog from!






Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilysmommy
I also have no experience with them, but just wanted to caution you away from several of the products on their supplies page - Ultra Bites treats aren't healthy (if I remember right, there's corn in them, and nuts), water bottles aren't usually recommended (break teeth, cause dehydration, unnatural drinking position if too high), Silent Spinner wheels aren't safe, and the lattice cat toy balls at the bottom aren't safe (jaws can fit through the spaces and seriously injure the hedgehog). The run-around balls can also be hazardous and a lot of people recommend against them, others think they're okay, but either way, they should only be used with supervision. I personally don't like them at all.
Lilysmommy-

Sorry to say, but you're the reason my reputable business steers clear of subjective forums cramped tighter then an elevator full of know-it-alls about a species of animal who wasn't even correctly scientifically categorized until the late 1990's and has little to no factual research done on them. But I appreciate you trying to do something with your spare time; even if it's being rude to someone who you can't even email with a questions about simple concerns! It's great to see people being active about their passions!

Ultra Bites were believed to be unhealthy and/or unsafe a few years ago due to their nuts, yes. But seeing how I work and school in the veterinary field it was very easy for me to get multiple qualified veterinarian's thoughts and approvals on them. Nuts and seeds were once/are thought to get stuck in the roof of a hedgehog's mouth and this is why they're avoided but with the way they're so finely chopped in my mix, I have never seen this issue. None of my customers have ever seen this issue.

I highly recommend water bottles for all of my hedgehogs. I sell them with every cage set-up. And as a breeder, I prefer my water bottles to dead, drowned litters. Or, because you have not experienced that side of the hedge, it doesn't exist? There are many types of water bottles available for pets in this day and age and some of them definitely contribute to broken teeth which is why we avoid nipples, nozzles, levers and anything the hedgehog bites. Some of them contribute to illnesses by being prone to slime and algae build-up along the inside so we avoid any water bottles with nooks, crannies and ridges to avoid unnatural build-up and we use bottle brushes to aide in avoiding and cleaning the more natural build-up. This is the same build-up and slime you'll get on your dishes if you also do not wipe them down and wash them well. You can't avoid it. And you'll also notice, all of my cage set-ups are sold with not one, but two 3" ceramic dishes. This is because every single customer is told to use a water dish for the first two to four weeks with their hedgehog. Hoglets are uncomfortable stretching their necks out and making themselves vulnerable in new situations when their natural reaction to new stimuli is to curl up and keep their head down and tucked; water dishes make them more comfortable. Every customer is also told to use the water dishes if it is easier on them and their hedgie, or they see their hedgie has issues with the water bottle. They are told to watch the water lines on their water bottles to make sure their hedgehog is using the bottles before taking away any dishes.As a breeder, I see a lot of hedgehogs, a lot of hedgehogs with preferences and a lot of hedgehog personalities and I do cater to every single one and prepare every single one for success to the best of my ability. By raising my babies to accept the most widely-used, preferred and common way of water being provided, I am not setting them up to go off into the world and dehydrate when a new owner does not like messy, spilled dishes.

I have only seen one person in my years of breeding who has ever had an issue with Silent Spinners and only did I ever see this issue reported online; never seen it in person. Some hedgehogs drown in water dishes, some hedgehogs (which I have seen with my own eyes) can't even find ways to step into the high-quality Carolina Storm Wheels because of their slippery surface, and much more. If your one hedgehog has a bad experience with a Silent Spinner, please do spend the whole ten dollars to get a cheaper alternative just like people would when buying water bottles when their expensive, new pets die in water dishes. Or, like my customers can do, you can bring me your Silent Spinner and I'll gladly exchange it for a Comfort Wheel. But, I guess if you can't even confront me with your concerns, you wouldn't know that about me or my practices, would you?

It's almost pointless to address my lattice balls or try and screenshot, spell out or dumb-down the warning on them that says only to use them under direct supervision after I've educated you on the fact different hedgehogs are different. I have some that adore their lattice balls and play with them in their playpens, out in the living room or kitchen, under direct supervision. Never have I had one's foot get stuck or jaws get injured under a responsible person's watch. If one gets damaged, as common sense suggests, it can simply be removed and tossed out so your hedgehog does not get injured on them. If you feel they'd hurt your hedgehog, please do not purchase them but please do not flame perfectly good alternatives for playtime for the more responsible owners.

Run-About balls are very rarely sold with hoglets as I personally address concerns about them with a customer who expresses interest in purchasing them. These are great for adult hedgehogs as long as they're - once again - being supervised with a responsible owner. They're massive for hoglets and can catch a tiny hoglet's feet and nails but I guess you wouldn't know that about me since you cannot address your concerns about my practices with me. They're just not right for some homes, some families, some hedgehogs but this does not mean if something's not right for you it's wrong for the world as well. I don't like cantalope but it's not wrong for everyone else to eat it.

As stated, I am rarely on this forum and never once have I taken the time to post because never once has someone been so immature as to whine about my practices behind my back like a child being denied a toy would. There is a Contact page on my website where you can email me and I am happy to speak with you about anything else you'd like to say about my business and experience.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Christemo
I personally would not deal with them, seeing what they sell in the supplies area.
Hi Christemo!

You're more than welcome to read the above post and/or send me a message via the Contact section of my website if you have concerns about my practices. I don't mind addressing them at all! However, I would appreciate that if you read the above message you did not pick up on the demure compliments left for the other forum user.






Quote:
Originally Posted by tigereyes319
Looking at what she says about the water bottle thats not a good sign. The bottle is 36oz so she only has to change/fill it twice a week? NO water is supposed to be changed daily. Also they don't breed for pedigree? So I am wondering if they inbreed for tempermant instead. They also state that" Also (as of November 2012) we do have every customer sign a contract stating they understand their hedgehog is being sold with no breeding rights and that we do have the right to reclaim the animal through the court of law if breeding is discovered. " How are they going to discover if breeding occured (not that you would do so but will they come to the home and expect to be let in unannounced?) I dont know if that is standard operating procedure but when I got mine from a breeder a long time ago I never had to sign anything like that. Also regarding WHS this is what they put The disease usually shows up within the first 18 months of life so once you're hedgehog has cleared that hurdle--you're good to go! From what I have read that is WRONG also.
Something feels off just from the little I have seen on their site. The refer a friend program? Difference in price for males and females if they are for pets only? One fee is 13 dollars then the other is 10? Sorry I do tend to pick apart things quite a bit but sometimes that helps others see what may have been overlooked.
Hi Tigereyes319!

Ever run into someone who sometimes stutters or slings their words together? Who can only get what they mean across 95% of the time and may use the wrong word or sentence every once in awhile? They're kind of uncommon, but you've met one! I get it from my father. If you had concerns about my water bottles, you are more than welcome to use the Contact page of my website to ask me about my practices. My water bottles are cleaned with bottle brushes and refilled on a daily basis; it's what I instruct as well. I appreciate you kindly pointing out the grammatical error in a mature and/or professional manner so I can address it! What was simply met was, that I prefer to have larger water bottles, in the case something happens. If Grandma has a severe heart attack and is in the emergency room with hours left to live, I would rather you spend your last evening with her actually with her and not texting your friends to try and water your hedgehog. What happens if the last thing you think about is a hedgehog's water bottle when you're holding Grandma's dying hand? It may be way too drastic to think about for some people and personalities, but this actually just happened to me with my grandfather a week ago and I am very glad I'm the kind of person who believes "prepare for the worse, hope for the best." I hate being caught off-guard in little situations that just ruin my day! Who doesn't? One night did not hurt my water bottles or my hedgehogs when that one night would have really hurt my heart had I had to leave. One night made a difference. I was glad I was prepared for even one night.

When I state that I breed not for pedigrees, but for temperament you are correct in saying that that statement is only half true depending on how you look at it. I take a lot of pride in the ten thousand dollars I have spent this year alone (compared to the four thousand I have made off of my babies) in collecting a wide variety of high-quality pedigrees to avoid the slightest inbreeding in my type of breeding program. My type of breeding program requires the wiggle room needed to pair great temperaments for great hoglets. Not "this hedgehog" goes with "this hedgehog" because they'll make huge litters of this color that I can sell. That is good breeding practices. That's what I want in my babies and the confidence I want in my reputation both in the business world and in the world that's every customer's loving family wanting a healthy pet to spend their lives with. If you prefer any less attention put into a breeder's passion and love for their animals and practices, I am sure you can find it. But you will not find it with my name on it.

I do not sell hedgehogs for breeding and you would be surprised how I would discover if breeding occured. The little girl who wanted to breed her cousin's hedgehog purchased from me only had to post is on Facebook and I was alerted by two other reputable breeders so I can responsibly address the situation just as they would want to. Someone who comes into my home - never owned a hedgehog - and picks up a female who mentions wanting to see my set-up for when they begin breeding is educated and may even be denied that hedgehog for it's own safety and for the better of the species when a backyard breeding case is avoided. One woman, came back to me just this month and said she attempted to breed her hedgehog, it died, and she demanded a full refund and/or replacement of the hedgehog for my lack of "education." I am protecting my babies from these people. I will continue to protect my babies; I brought them into this world not for some cash out of someone's pocket but to nurture the love a person has for their pet. I will continue to place them only in the best of homes. Did you know that owning a pet has even showed to lengthen some people's lives? That's what drives this policy. The length and happiness of each and every person's life. Including my hedgehog's.

Wobbly Hedgehogs Sindrome (WHS) is a condition that has so little research done on it, it is even unknown what causes it. I know someone who thinks it's environmental temperature and stimuli that can bring out WHS and she's a very reputable breeder who's opinion I respect, even if I do not agree. No one's even scientifically sure it's hereditary or not but we still avoid bloodlines that have seen it to attempt to weed the nasty disease out of the animals we love so much. Every case I have seen? Has occured within 18 months. I am entitled to that opinion unless you can convince a qualified set of scientists to launch a multi-thousand dollar project for you. But until someone does it, we battle it the best way we can. You have a three year old hedgehog who is diagnosed with WHS? Show me the necropsy! I'd love to expand my knowledge of this illness just as every single person, owner and breeder would love to.

My Refer-A-Friend program? Currently, my babies are not selling very well. I didn't start this special simply because I need some cash in my pocket. I did this so my babies who are already weaned do not get older and older and older, less and less and less likely to be adopted by someone because popular belief is a baby is best for bonding and socialization. If this does not sit well with you, you're more than welcome to come build some extra rooms on my house for me to keep every baby I breed! The more hedgie love the better! But you'll also have to come help me clean and care for fifteen extra cages since I'm also an unmarried mother to two young boys, a sole business owner and operator and a full-time college student with a part-time job. I just hate when that thing called life gets in the way of what ever I want to do, don't you?

My females are priced slightly higher then my males not only to avoid backyard breeders but for the simple fact that most people want what's cheap. It's a hard fact, it really is. But this spares some of my females and allows me to continue to offer these high-quality animals to other breeders instead of make them wait months for the right pedigree, right color or right attitude to come by when they're going to have to wait another half a year to breed the animals and more months to see anything from the animal. Without breeders and without the support reputable breeders often give each other there wouldn't be hedgehogs so readily available for you to enjoy. Just because you have not experienced that side of the hedge does not mean it does not exist.

My fees? These are PayPal based. PayPal not only charges a percentage fee but then a fee based per item. It's sometimes difficult to perfectly calculate and when you try to keep your prices as low and as close to manufacturer's pricing, that one or two dollars can mean a loss in your own expenses. If you do not appreciate my fees there are many ways you can get verified with PayPal to be able to send money via Gift to avoid any and all fees. Or I accept money orders. Or I accept cash. Or I accept debit and credit cards right here in my own home and over the phone. But you wouldn't know that unless you properly addressed that with me, would you?

If you have more concerns about my practices, prices or reasoning, please feel free to visit the Contact page of my website and send me an email. I try to be very prompt.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christemo
I personally would not deal with them, seeing what they sell in the supplies area.
I understand your point, but I feel like a lot of time supplies people/breeders use are pretty subjective, and if someone (like the OP) is already on the forum they can get all the pertinant information for and against those things here.

Other than a few questionable item in the supply area, I think their policies generally point to responsible breeding - i.e. lifetime guaranty against WHS, registration with the IHR, asking people to contact them if they need to rehome their hedgehog, not selling too illegal states/counties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigereyes319
The bottle is 36oz so she only has to change/fill it twice a week?
I saw this too and it was the biggest red flag for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigereyes319
Also they don't breed for pedigree?
.

I think you're possibly taking that a bit out of context. "Here we do not breed for pedigree lines or the biggest litters for the most profit but we take our time finding the best parents to make you the best pet." It doesn't say that they don't consider pedigree in their breeding, but that they are concerned mainly with breeding good "pets". They clearly register their hedgehogs and on the policies page state "we go out of our way to clear (on average) five generations without WHS in our pedigrees and babies."


Again, I don't have any affiliation with this breeder nor have I dealt with them on any level, but they don't look so terrible to me. *Shrug*
Hi Sarahg!

I really appreciate your educated responces and highly respect them; I truly do! As for my water bottles, let me quote something posted to someone else for you:

"Ever run into someone who sometimes stutters or slings their words together? Who can only get what they mean across 95% of the time and may use the wrong word or sentence every once in awhile? They're kind of uncommon, but you've met one! I get it from my father. If you had concerns about my water bottles, you are more than welcome to use the Contact page of my website to ask me about my practices. My water bottles are cleaned with bottle brushes and refilled on a daily basis; it's what I instruct as well. I appreciate you kindly pointing out the grammatical error in a mature and/or professional manner so I can address it! What was simply met was, that I prefer to have larger water bottles, in the case something happens. If Grandma has a severe heart attack and is in the emergency room with hours left to live, I would rather you spend your last evening with her actually with her and not texting your friends to try and water your hedgehog. What happens if the last thing you think about is a hedgehog's water bottle when you're holding Grandma's dying hand? It may be way too drastic to think about for some people and personalities, but this actually just happened to me with my grandfather a week ago and I am very glad I'm the kind of person who believes "prepare for the worse, hope for the best." I hate being caught off-guard in little situations that just ruin my day! Who doesn't? One night did not hurt my water bottles or my hedgehogs when that one night would have really hurt my heart had I had to leave. One night made a difference. I was glad I was prepared for even one night."

Please take nothing negative from the quote as I feel, at the time, I was speaking to someone of much less intelligent then you. If you have questions about my practices you're more than welcome to use the Contact section of my website to email me about anything. I try to be very prompt in my responces.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

Ahh, typos out the rear! And I cannot edit my post to fix them! Please let me know if I confused any one in those emails I invited you all to send me!
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Happy Hogs a good place to adopt??

I'm sorry you were offended by my post. I was being careful to mention that I had not had any experience with you or your breeding practice, and to not say anything whether I recommended for or against you or your babies specifically. I was only mentioning the concerns I had with the products that were listed on the page - nothing about you. Yes, I realize that everyone uses different products and has different likes/unlikes concerned with what they use with their animals, and I probably should've worded my post better to reflect that my comments were only meant to highlight some of the concerns I've seen related to those products. And my comments on those products come from being on the forum and reading posts from many people with many different experiences. I can think of several threads on the forum about hedgehogs getting injured nails/toes/feet from Silent Spinners - there's a blood-covered picture of one in the Products Review thread. That it's happened several times (among other problems I've read about, like loose nuts) is enough for me to want to mention it to other owners, and to not use them myself. Same with the other products - I've heard/read about problems related to them, enough that I think it's worthwhile to at least mention the concerns. Like I said, I should've worded my post better to make it clear that I was only mentioning the possible concerns of the products, rather than stating that they're downright bad. I'm sorry I apparently came off as rude, know-it-all, and stuck up - I try really hard to avoid that when I'm answering questions and posting on the forum. To be honest, I'm also a little hurt that I was called all of those things and also a child when I tried to keep my post limited directly to the products and my concerns about them and nothing regarding your practice, policies, or hedgehogs. I agree that I could have clarified myself a little better but, as you said, everyone uses the wrong word or sentence once in awhile!
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