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Old 11-09-2012, 08:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Legality Question

I'm not sure what this question goes under.

I happen to know of a woman that works for a store I frequent. Apparently she breeds many things herself, including bearded dragons, snakes, axolotls, and other things the store buys from her. I've just been informed that they will start carrying the hedgehogs she breeds, as she has litters coming in.

Now, I looked and asked and she is not licensed. Considering that she is selling to the store and the store is selling for 250$ a pop, I'm questioning the legality of this. I have seen the reptiles she breeds, and I do not think that they are in great condition, and that store does not know how to keep their animals though multiple store employees breed for the store. I breed axolotls myself and they are continuously killing of portions of their stock from sheer stupidity, so I cannot see how this will end well. On the other hand, their mammals have always looked fine to me, and they did give me great mouse advice when I was setting up breeder colonies.

I'm wondering if her profit from the hedgehogs will be under the table and the payment will just be padded into her paycheck. Any thoughts on this? How would one handle this situation? My experiences with the store have been very mixed, but I can't see how I can call a report on it considering I don't know what her breeding situation is yet.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

I amnot sure on the legality but i can only speak from expirence. I had gotten Preston from a pet store, and before hand i heard mixedreviews about the store, a lot of peoples animals were sicks from there and such. but Preston looked healthy in the store so we got him. 3 days after having him we had to take him to the emerg vet becuase he was pooping pure blood and mucus. He needed antibiotics. Then i approched the pet store owner to let him know what happened. He hasnt been answering my phone calls since. So just be careful! really research the store and ask a ton of questions even if you feel annoying be annoying!!:P Its all for your possible future hedgies health
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

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Originally Posted by AnnabellasMomma
I amnot sure on the legality but i can only speak from expirence. I had gotten Preston from a pet store, and before hand i heard mixedreviews about the store, a lot of peoples animals were sicks from there and such. but Preston looked healthy in the store so we got him. 3 days after having him we had to take him to the emerg vet becuase he was pooping pure blood and mucus. He needed antibiotics. Then i approched the pet store owner to let him know what happened. He hasnt been answering my phone calls since. So just be careful! really research the store and ask a ton of questions even if you feel annoying be annoying!!:P Its all for your possible future hedgies health
Thanks for the experience, though I already have two hedgehogs. I'm not planning to make any animal purchases from them again. It's more of a "Should I report this?" scenario.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

For reporting, i would say if you have noticed any of the animals are leaving the store in not teh best shape i would report.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

Not legal advice, but situations like this make me want to buy all the animals. I can't stand to see animals in even slightly questionable conditions or in pet stores not being loved on
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

Assuming you're in the US, pet stores must be USDA licensed to sell hedgehogs, and the breeder must be licensed as well, IF she has more than 3 breeding females. It wouldn't hurt anything to send a letter/email/whatever to the USDA and ask that she/they be investigated.

This website http://www.petshoppuppies.com/fac.htm gives a good sample letter and the address to send it to.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley e
Not legal advice, but situations like this make me want to buy all the animals. I can't stand to see animals in even slightly questionable conditions or in pet stores not being loved on
If only it could be done without having the complete opposite effect. Purchasing from pet stores or unreputable sources, even to "save" them, just further enables that store/source to have more of them for sale. The best thing you can do is walk away. The longer those hedgehogs go without being sold, the less likely it is that the store will continue acquiring hedgehogs to sell.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxieberry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley e
Not legal advice, but situations like this make me want to buy all the animals. I can't stand to see animals in even slightly questionable conditions or in pet stores not being loved on
If only it could be done without having the complete opposite effect. Purchasing from pet stores or unreputable sources, even to "save" them, just further enables that store/source to have more of them for sale. The best thing you can do is walk away. The longer those hedgehogs go without being sold, the less likely it is that the store will continue acquiring hedgehogs to sell.

That makes perfect sense! It's just unfortunate that there are people that don't care about the welfare of an animal.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legality Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by moxieberry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley e
Not legal advice, but situations like this make me want to buy all the animals. I can't stand to see animals in even slightly questionable conditions or in pet stores not being loved on
If only it could be done without having the complete opposite effect. Purchasing from pet stores or unreputable sources, even to "save" them, just further enables that store/source to have more of them for sale. The best thing you can do is walk away. The longer those hedgehogs go without being sold, the less likely it is that the store will continue acquiring hedgehogs to sell.
While I agree, at the same time not buying the animals will also not do much. There are too many misinformed people out there who do buy those animals and do not give them the best care. It's much too positive to think that not buying them will produce any result- the only thing that can change this kind of thing is a legal matter. As long as there is stupidity out there, stores like this and the big chain stores will never go out of business.

I'm waiting to see how the little will come on. Unfortunately calling abuse on reptiles, amphibians, and fish hardly ever works because the USDA is just as misinformed as most pet stores. In fact, the USDA is a huge problem. It's sunshine and rainbows to think their regulations help things in most cases.

The store is getting their licensing for them, but there is no word on the breeder's licensing. I do believe that they will be kept in a giant octagon glass floor display with a metal vented top, like the ferret displays you would see at most petsmarts or petcos. I can almost guarantee aspen because that is what all their rodents are on. They sell a crappy hedgehog diet, but I don't know what they will recommend. A lot of my issues with them has been on healthy feeding practices.

It's a little difficult because I come from a reptile background, and most sores do better on the mammals and birds than they do rodents. As for their birds, I know they're well taken care of and all their displays are flight cages, even for the finch groups, which is better than most stores I've ever seen. The rodents are all kept in glass, which I view as a no-no, especially from breeding mice (albeit for food and not for pets).

So I don't know. I'll wait and see what the situation looks like. I don't feel comfortable reporting them yet because I am already on the rocks with another of the employees because she thinks she knows everything about axolotls because hers happened to breed. I've seen theirs with so many health problems and they do not know what they're doing at all. They treat them like fish and quite a few have died. I have made many complaints to the owner for them to change their ways. They've only changed a few, but I'm a bit fed up with them being complete ignorant and arrogant a-holes.

On a side note, I poisoned one of their new employees today with proper sexing and care of sand boas and sand fish skinks. I was proud of that, at least.
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